From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from rey.nocdirect.com (rey.nocdirect.com [69.73.182.197]) by mail.toke.dk (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4323A800566 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2021 20:38:26 +0100 (CET) Received: from [194.5.49.21] (port=4656 helo=matrix8.org) by rey.nocdirect.com with esmtpsa (TLS1.2) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA384 (Exim 4.93) (envelope-from ) id 1lGoMz-00039K-0v; Mon, 01 Mar 2021 14:38:24 -0500 From: "email@matrix8.org" To: Juliusz Chroboczek , galene@lists.galene.org Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2021 03:38:13 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In-Reply-To: <87zgzwdy88.wl-jch@irif.fr> References: <87zgzwdy88.wl-jch@irif.fr> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.8 on Emacs 27.1 Message-Id: <81FD70ED26B7687E7927C74@matrix8.org> X-OutGoing-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - rey.nocdirect.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - lists.galene.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - matrix8.org X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: rey.nocdirect.com: authenticated_id: email@matrix8.org X-Authenticated-Sender: rey.nocdirect.com: email@matrix8.org X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Message-ID-Hash: MRK44NOYSXFVK2XY2AHMWSZRUSJUD4PA X-Message-ID-Hash: MRK44NOYSXFVK2XY2AHMWSZRUSJUD4PA X-MailFrom: email@matrix8.org X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; suspicious-header X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.2 Precedence: list Subject: [Galene] Re: Talk about =?iso-8859-1?q?Gal=E8ne?= today (monday) at 17pm CET List-Id: =?utf-8?q?Gal=C3=A8ne_videoconferencing_server_discussion_list?= Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Hi Juliusz, I thank you very much for your very interesting talk during the event=20 which inspired me a lot. (To mailing list members : Below is regarding the talk event and my=20 sharing personal experience of deploying Galene. You may ignore this=20 Email, 186 lines.) Please allow me to describe myself quickly so you will understand from=20 which knowledge level I am writing this. I consider myself as an open=20 source app-finder who eagerly keeps looking for apps which make people's=20 life easier and monitoring the big forests where apps grow one after=20 another, ex.) Github forest, SourceForge, OSDN. I do not know=20 programming. That's why I keep using what others develop as open source=20 software. Due to the Covid-19 pandemic, it is obvious that people became more in=20 need of video-meeting apps than before. So I had deployed VPSs running=20 BigBlueButton and Jitsi-meet to help people around me to communicate=20 safely since last year. I have been monitoring EduMeet and Galene both=20 on Github and the mailing list very curiously for past months also. Please keep it in your mind that I have no intention at all to blame=20 anyone nor any open source projects at all rather I am grateful to all=20 developers for their contributions for the community. I will mention=20 names of some apps below for comparison. Since I do not know how to read source codes, I usually judge the=20 softwares by testing them myself and also with the number of people=20 involved with the projects, which usually reflects the quality of the=20 software and assurance of long time maintenance. When I came to know=20 Galene, it looked so interesting to me but it had only 4 contributors.=20 So honestly I did not expect a lot to the project initially. Below is the current figures on Github jitsi-meet Contributors 340 + 329 contributors BigBlueButton Contributors 142 + 131 contributors edumeet Contributors 34 + 23 contributors Galene / Contributors 4 If Jitsi-meet and BigBlueButton are the giant trees on Gibhub forest in=20 my eyes, edumeet is probably a young tree size. Then Galene in my eyes=20 initially looked like a mushroom in the forest. So I really did not=20 expect much on Galene after I recognized the figure of 4. But my attending to your talk event and met with your core team and=20 being provided with your presentation, I found that the Galene project=20 has a big future potential. That's why I commented during your talk on=20 the chat that I should not judge the project with the number of=20 contributers. Even the Contributer figure is 4. After attending your=20 talk, I interpret this figure of 4 as equivalent to more than 4 x 100=20 development power. During the your talk event, I was very much impressed with the=20 performance of Galene comparing with BigBlueButton and Jitsi-meet in=20 terms of stability and quality of video and audio. So I immediately=20 thought of running it on own VPS. I was very lucky to receive very encouraging chat messages during your=20 talk event from other participants for me to deploy own Galene instances.=20 They mentioned that it takes only 15 min including the installation of=20 TLS cert. Another mentioned that I would never be able to go back once I=20 run Galene since Galene is a static binary + json config. I could not=20 understand how great the combination of the static binary and json=20 config due to lack of my knowledge at that time. All I understood was it=20 takes for 15 min for the seasoned developers and I would not be able to=20 go back after experiencing to run the Galene. Their words fueled my=20 passion to deploy Galene. Thank you to all the participants for the=20 positive energy exchange. So after your talk event was over, I immediately started to do some=20 research and plan to deploy Galene. For me it is very important to=20 understand the whole picture of the deployment procedure of Galene=20 before working on VPS rather than simply following the given=20 instructions. The first thing I researched on was to see if my usual preferred Debian=20 is OK to run Galene. I found out that no particular Linux distro was=20 recommended on official Galene site. Then I started to research on preferred version of Go. I found out that=20 no particular version requirement was mentioned on official Galene site.=20 So I just installed Debian 10's official package of Go assuming it meets=20 the requirements. It was my first time to touch Go so I wanted to do some research on the=20 background of Go language especially to see if there is any privacy=20 breaching string attached to Google, the mother of Go. I read that=20 modules are downloaded from Google servers with default settings. I=20 could not verify if using Go breaches privacy or not yet. Then I=20 proceeded to read on Pion... I had spent already 2 hours up to this=20 stage. I had been walking with the turtle speed while beating around the=20 bush. :-) To make the very long story short, I want to share with you that it=20 took me total 4 days to be able to deploy Galene in stead of 15 min of=20 seasoned developers required time. It actually took 4 days x intensive=20 12 hours =3D minimum 48 hours instead of the 15 min. Although it took long = for me, I had been having fun and totally engrossed with understanding=20 as much as background knowledge needed to understand how Galene works. I felt as if I climbed to the top of the mount Everest after successful=20 deployment of Galene. It was a long way to go for me. The experience was =20 as if seasoned climbers gave me the location of the Everest and provided=20 a very rough, minimum, and limited but very important instructions on=20 how to climb to the top while describing how beautiful the command of=20 the view they saw from the summit. The rough instruction didn't include=20 any detailed information at all on what I should be equipped with,=20 condition of the path, the weather condition, potential risks on the=20 path, why I have to take particular actions, etc. Because of so much=20 troubles and accidents I experienced during the climb, I can say I=20 learned a lot. Today I have been enjoying learning how to write JSON dictionary=20 correctly since every time when I replace correctly working default=20 groupname.json with my new settings, I keep encountering Galene's=20 "Internal server error" messages. But all errors are caused by my own=20 lack of knowledge and training on json. I know I will understand json=20 correct in a few hours of readings and experiencing some trial and error.=20 A person like me could deploy Galene. For other skilled people it must=20 be very much easier to deploy Galene. After the deployment of Galene, I think that I understand better why=20 Galene is great. The static binary is very stable, fast and portable,=20 correct? And it can be easily configured with simple JSON files. The UI=20 is also static and the files can be modified very easily by editing HTML=20 and CSS files. It is simple and powerful, I think. Judging from htop=20 result, it looks it consumes minimum CPU power and RAM space. Turning on,=20 off of microphone and video cams anytime during the meeting is very=20 smooth, quick, easy and stable. Being able to share multiple screens and=20 apps, it is so easy to do more effective presentations easily. It is a=20 WoW experience. It is no wonder that I was told that I won't be able to=20 go back to other apps after deploying own Galene. Please correct me if=20 my understanding is wrong. In terms of installation procedure, both BigBlueButton and Jitsi-meet is=20 well documented enough and super easy to install with basic knowledge of=20 Linux commands by following the official documents. It's easy to the=20 point that I learned not much new during the deployment procedure. But with regards to Galene, probably the documentation could be adjusted=20 for less seasoned administrators who wants to deploy Galene. For example,=20 just sharing tested environment information of Linux distribution and=20 versions of Go will immediately save the time of people who would want=20 to run Galene, I think. With regards to required Go version, I found out=20 version minimum 1.13 is required only after I hit my head with error=20 messages since I was using Debian stable package of 1.11.6 I found the info here. Github "Issue #22" Building on Debian stable (10. 7) fails to find crypto/ed25519 So the Galene official site could add the info on required Go version,=20 minimum 1.13. This will immediately help others I assume. I am willing to assist the team with my limited knowledge on project=20 documentation if you think I could be of your small help. If Galene=20 developers are targeting only seasoned administrators as audiences, the=20 current doc may be good enough already for them to be able to deploy=20 Galene in 15 min. I also want to share that I had to replace the original self-signed=20 certificate by installing certbot because my friends whom I invited to=20 join me to test freshly deployed Galene instance refused to join the=20 session when they visited the link I gave because their browser=20 intercepted them to visit my Galene site with "Potential risk" error=20 message. I told them it is safe to further proceed by accepting the risk=20 on the browser but they trusted the browser's error message over my=20 persuasion. They even invited me for ZOOM meeting instead. It was=20 coincident and timely that Juliusz mentioned in the mailing list on " cp=20 key.pem ~galene/data/key.pem, cp fullchain.pem ~galene/data/cert.pem"=20 that was very the moment I needed to understand what to copy and where=20 to copy after installed certificates with certbot. Now the Galene 0.3.1 is out, I will work on the upgrade soon. I will try=20 to complete this in one hour while seeking to complete it in 15 min. It=20 won't take 4 days this time. I am sorry if I occupied too much time of people on mailing list with my=20 this Email. I simply wanted to share my experience and gratitude with=20 the community. Please forgive me if I ever there is anyone feeling not=20 good by receiving this Email. Thank you very much for sharing Galene with the world! May you, all contributors and all people around the community be well,=20 happy and peaceful. :-) John --------- Original Message ---------- Subject: [Galene] Talk about Gal=E8ne today (monday) at 17pm CET From: Juliusz Chroboczek To: galene@lists.galene.org Cc: =20 Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2021 14:32:39 +0100 I'll be giving a talk about Gal=E8ne this afternoon: https://ffwd.flashgrants.org/calendar.html#event-15/ (Yeah, I know, it says Dave, but I'm the one giving the talk.) Sorry for the short delay. -- Juliusz