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From: Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2021 08:24:38 -0700
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To: Juliusz Chroboczek <jch@irif.fr>
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Subject: [Galene] Re: End-to-end encryption [was: User management]
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On Fri, Oct 1, 2021 at 7:20 AM Juliusz Chroboczek <jch@irif.fr> wrote:
>
> > talking to a trusted videoconferencing server. I did rather like the
> > insertable streams idea:
> >
> > https://webrtchacks.com/true-end-to-end-encryption-with-webrtc-insertab=
le-streams/
>
> I like the idea of end-to-end encryption, but I feel that I'm not ready t=
o
> implement it yet.
>
> Insertable streams gives you the ability to perform end-to-end encryption=
,
> but it does not define the encryption format. So you end up having to
> design your own crypto, with all the dangers that this entails. Before w=
e
> can use insertable streams, we need to have a clear specification of
> a recommended encrypted format to use with it. There is an IETF effort t=
o
> do that, but it's IETF, so it won't conclude before a few years. (Last
> time I checked, they were discussing the benefits of two approaches,
> SFrame and Spacket, if memory serves, and there was no clear consensus ye=
t.)
>
> There are two other issues. First, in order to do simulcast and keyframe
> optimisation, Galene needs to look inside the packets. Jitsi works aroun=
d
> the issue by not encrypting the first 8 octets of every packet, even one
> that does not start a frame, but it's difficult to tell what amount of
> information this leaks. The proper solution to the issue is to have an
> unencrypted header extension that contains the required information, but
> that's only available with AV1 and not implemented yet (Chrome uses
> a nonstandard format for AV1).
>
> Second, simulcast for VP8 requires rewriting the packet contents, which i=
s
> obviously impossible if the data is encrypted. This is solved with VP9,
> but what it means is that you cannot have encrypted simulcast with VP8,
> something has to give.
>
> In short, Dave, I have given some serious thought to the issue of
> end-to-end encryption, and I feel that it will need to wait a couple of
> years before we can deploy it in production.
thanks for having given it much deeper thought than I have so far!
I would like then, to somehow, push harder to embed videoconferencing
servers such as galene into more edge embedded products. I am very
disturbed by the widespread belief among users that videoconferencing
servers in the cloud are actually secure, and would like to see services
like baby-cams, and personal interactions, move back to the edge, and
back under user control (and there's also a bandwidth savings to be had)
There is a lot of work going on on edge cpe - like prplos, rdk-b,
and security products like these,
https://www.theverge.com/2021/9/28/22692073/ring-alarm-pro-amazon-event-rel=
ease-date-specs-price-features
running on capable hardware, that might be used.
> -- Juliusz
--=20
Fixing Starlink's Latencies: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Dc9gLo6Xrwgw
Dave T=C3=A4ht CEO, TekLibre, LLC