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* [Galene] autolock always locks
@ 2021-01-14  9:19 Michael Ströder
  2021-01-14 12:36 ` [Galene] " Juliusz Chroboczek
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread
From: Michael Ströder @ 2021-01-14  9:19 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: galene

HI!

New autolock options sounds great!

But for me it does not work as expected.

I've defined a group like this:

{
  "contact": "michael@stroeder.com",
  "comment": "Private Conference",
  "description": "Private Conference",
  "autolock": true,
  "public": true,
  "op": [
    {
      "username":"msop",
      "password":"supersecret"
    }
  ],
  "presenter": [{}],
  "allow-recording": true,
  "max-clients": 6
}

After entering the session as "msop", I verify that option menu shows
ops right.

But I cannot enter as another user "foo" (without password).

"The server said: this group is locked✖
Galène"

Something else I have to define?

Ciao, Michael.

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread

* [Galene] Re: autolock always locks
  2021-01-14  9:19 [Galene] autolock always locks Michael Ströder
@ 2021-01-14 12:36 ` Juliusz Chroboczek
  2021-01-14 12:38   ` Gabriel Kerneis
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread
From: Juliusz Chroboczek @ 2021-01-14 12:36 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Michael Ströder; +Cc: galene

>   "autolock": true,

> After entering the session as "msop", I verify that option menu shows
> ops right.

> But I cannot enter as another user "foo" (without password).

The op needs to manually unlock the group by saying "/unlock".  Think of
a job interview: the interviewers all have op privileges, they join the
locked group, and when they decide they're ready, they unlock the group
and invite the candidate to join.

As they start chatting with the candidate, they might forget to lock the
group again.  If they leave the group unlocked, there might be information
that is confidential under European law in the chat; the autolock feature
ensures that a third party cannot access the chat after the interviewers
have left.

-- Juliusz

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread

* [Galene] Re: autolock always locks
  2021-01-14 12:36 ` [Galene] " Juliusz Chroboczek
@ 2021-01-14 12:38   ` Gabriel Kerneis
  2021-01-14 12:55     ` Juliusz Chroboczek
  2021-01-14 12:56     ` Michael Ströder
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 13+ messages in thread
From: Gabriel Kerneis @ 2021-01-14 12:38 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: galene

On Thu, 14 Jan 2021, at 13:36, Juliusz Chroboczek wrote:
> >   "autolock": true,
> 
> > After entering the session as "msop", I verify that option menu shows
> > ops right.
> 
> > But I cannot enter as another user "foo" (without password).
> 
> The op needs to manually unlock the group by saying "/unlock".  Think of
> a job interview: the interviewers all have op privileges, they join the
> locked group, and when they decide they're ready, they unlock the group
> and invite the candidate to join.
> 
> As they start chatting with the candidate, they might forget to lock the
> group again.  If they leave the group unlocked, there might be information
> that is confidential under European law in the chat; the autolock feature
> ensures that a third party cannot access the chat after the interviewers
> have left.

Are non-ops automatically kicked out when the last op leaves (or when the group is locked again with /lock)?

-- 
Gabriel

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread

* [Galene] Re: autolock always locks
  2021-01-14 12:38   ` Gabriel Kerneis
@ 2021-01-14 12:55     ` Juliusz Chroboczek
  2021-01-14 12:58       ` Michael Ströder
  2021-01-14 12:56     ` Michael Ströder
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread
From: Juliusz Chroboczek @ 2021-01-14 12:55 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Gabriel Kerneis; +Cc: galene

> Are non-ops automatically kicked out when the last op leaves (or when
> the group is locked again with /lock)?

No -- the assumption is that they were present at the meeting, so they're
authorised to be here.  If they leave, they cannot re-join, though.


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread

* [Galene] Re: autolock always locks
  2021-01-14 12:38   ` Gabriel Kerneis
  2021-01-14 12:55     ` Juliusz Chroboczek
@ 2021-01-14 12:56     ` Michael Ströder
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 13+ messages in thread
From: Michael Ströder @ 2021-01-14 12:56 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: galene

On 1/14/21 1:38 PM, Gabriel Kerneis wrote:
> Are non-ops automatically kicked out when the last op leaves (or when
> the group is locked again with /lock)?
AFAICS, no.

Ciao, Michael.

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread

* [Galene] Re: autolock always locks
  2021-01-14 12:55     ` Juliusz Chroboczek
@ 2021-01-14 12:58       ` Michael Ströder
  2021-01-14 15:26         ` Juliusz Chroboczek
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread
From: Michael Ströder @ 2021-01-14 12:58 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: galene

On 1/14/21 1:55 PM, Juliusz Chroboczek wrote:
>> Are non-ops automatically kicked out when the last op leaves (or when
>> the group is locked again with /lock)?
> 
> No -- the assumption is that they were present at the meeting, so they're
> authorised to be here.

RFE: How about an autokick group option. ;-)

Ciao, Michael.

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread

* [Galene] Re: autolock always locks
  2021-01-14 12:58       ` Michael Ströder
@ 2021-01-14 15:26         ` Juliusz Chroboczek
  2021-01-14 15:41           ` Michael Ströder
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread
From: Juliusz Chroboczek @ 2021-01-14 15:26 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Michael Ströder; +Cc: galene

>>> Are non-ops automatically kicked out when the last op leaves (or when
>>> the group is locked again with /lock)?

>> No -- the assumption is that they were present at the meeting, so they're
>> authorised to be here.

> RFE: How about an autokick group option. ;-)

Opinions from others?  Featuritis or useful feature?

-- Juliusz

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread

* [Galene] Re: autolock always locks
  2021-01-14 15:26         ` Juliusz Chroboczek
@ 2021-01-14 15:41           ` Michael Ströder
  2021-01-14 17:17             ` Toke Høiland-Jørgensen
  2021-01-14 17:33             ` Juliusz Chroboczek
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 13+ messages in thread
From: Michael Ströder @ 2021-01-14 15:41 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: galene

On 1/14/21 4:26 PM, Juliusz Chroboczek wrote:
>>>> Are non-ops automatically kicked out when the last op leaves (or when
>>>> the group is locked again with /lock)?
> 
>>> No -- the assumption is that they were present at the meeting, so they're
>>> authorised to be here.
> 
>> RFE: How about an autokick group option. ;-)
> 
> Opinions from others?  Featuritis or useful feature?

Just to add some rationale:

I'm not so much concerned about GDPR issues because this can mostly be
dealt with at orga level. And believe me, I'm concerned about privacy in
general. Otherwise I wouldn't spend my spare time running my own video
conference server.

But compared to privacy issues I'm much more frightened of someone
abusing my unattended Galène installation for something really bad
which does real harm to human beings and triggers police investigation
etc. I was even considering time constraints in my reverse proxy or
similar to tighten it at least a bit.

So IMO an autokick option would not only be featuritis.

Ciao, Michael.

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread

* [Galene] Re: autolock always locks
  2021-01-14 15:41           ` Michael Ströder
@ 2021-01-14 17:17             ` Toke Høiland-Jørgensen
  2021-01-14 17:29               ` Michael Ströder
  2021-01-14 17:33             ` Juliusz Chroboczek
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread
From: Toke Høiland-Jørgensen @ 2021-01-14 17:17 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Michael Ströder, galene

Michael Ströder <michael@stroeder.com> writes:

> On 1/14/21 4:26 PM, Juliusz Chroboczek wrote:
>>>>> Are non-ops automatically kicked out when the last op leaves (or when
>>>>> the group is locked again with /lock)?
>> 
>>>> No -- the assumption is that they were present at the meeting, so they're
>>>> authorised to be here.
>> 
>>> RFE: How about an autokick group option. ;-)
>> 
>> Opinions from others?  Featuritis or useful feature?
>
> Just to add some rationale:
>
> I'm not so much concerned about GDPR issues because this can mostly be
> dealt with at orga level. And believe me, I'm concerned about privacy in
> general. Otherwise I wouldn't spend my spare time running my own video
> conference server.
>
> But compared to privacy issues I'm much more frightened of someone
> abusing my unattended Galène installation for something really bad
> which does real harm to human beings and triggers police investigation
> etc. I was even considering time constraints in my reverse proxy or
> similar to tighten it at least a bit.
>
> So IMO an autokick option would not only be featuritis.

So autokick would make sure to empty the room when the last op leaves,
is that it?

My corporate video chat solution leaves that as an option for me when I
leave the room (I can just leave, or I can check a box to kick everyone
out when I do). Wouldn't that be more useful than a per-room setting?

-Toke

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread

* [Galene] Re: autolock always locks
  2021-01-14 17:17             ` Toke Høiland-Jørgensen
@ 2021-01-14 17:29               ` Michael Ströder
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 13+ messages in thread
From: Michael Ströder @ 2021-01-14 17:29 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: galene

On 1/14/21 6:17 PM, Toke Høiland-Jørgensen wrote:
> Michael Ströder <michael@stroeder.com> writes:
> 
>> On 1/14/21 4:26 PM, Juliusz Chroboczek wrote:
>>>>>> Are non-ops automatically kicked out when the last op leaves (or when
>>>>>> the group is locked again with /lock)?
>>>
>>>>> No -- the assumption is that they were present at the meeting, so they're
>>>>> authorised to be here.
>>>
>>>> RFE: How about an autokick group option. ;-)
>>>
>>> Opinions from others?  Featuritis or useful feature?
>>
>> Just to add some rationale:
>>
>> I'm not so much concerned about GDPR issues because this can mostly be
>> dealt with at orga level. And believe me, I'm concerned about privacy in
>> general. Otherwise I wouldn't spend my spare time running my own video
>> conference server.
>>
>> But compared to privacy issues I'm much more frightened of someone
>> abusing my unattended Galène installation for something really bad
>> which does real harm to human beings and triggers police investigation
>> etc. I was even considering time constraints in my reverse proxy or
>> similar to tighten it at least a bit.
>>
>> So IMO an autokick option would not only be featuritis.
> 
> So autokick would make sure to empty the room when the last op leaves,
> is that it?

Yes, but preserve current behaviour of autolock.

> My corporate video chat solution leaves that as an option for me when I
> leave the room (I can just leave, or I can check a box to kick everyone
> out when I do). Wouldn't that be more useful than a per-room setting?

That would be useful and comfortable for users.

But if the ops' connection fails and this question never appears I'd
prefer that everybody else is kicked out. Well, maybe kick out after 1+
or 2+ minutes of ops' inactivity / absence or similar to avoid kicking
the whole conference just because of temporary ops connection problem.

Thinking about this some more behaviour of autolock could also be like this.

Uuuh, I'm feeling bad for having too much ideas without being able to
submit pull requests...

Ciao, Michael.

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread

* [Galene] Re: autolock always locks
  2021-01-14 15:41           ` Michael Ströder
  2021-01-14 17:17             ` Toke Høiland-Jørgensen
@ 2021-01-14 17:33             ` Juliusz Chroboczek
  2021-01-14 17:40               ` Michael Ströder
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread
From: Juliusz Chroboczek @ 2021-01-14 17:33 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Michael Ströder; +Cc: galene

> But compared to privacy issues I'm much more frightened of someone
> abusing my unattended Galène installation for something really bad

[...]

> So IMO an autokick option would not only be featuritis.

What happens if the operator gets disconnected, for example because he
closed the wrong navigator tab or because he moved from WiFi to 4G which
broke the websocket?  When he comes back, everyone has been kicked out.
(Obviously, we cannot detect if the op has closed the tab by mistake or
deliberately.)

What about adding a command "/kickall" that kicks everyone out (including
operators)?  So at the end of a meeting the operator can say

  /kickall
  /lock

and if he forgets, autolock will kick in (no pun intended) but users won't
be automatically kicked out.

-- Juliusz

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread

* [Galene] Re: autolock always locks
  2021-01-14 17:33             ` Juliusz Chroboczek
@ 2021-01-14 17:40               ` Michael Ströder
  2021-01-17 20:30                 ` Juliusz Chroboczek
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread
From: Michael Ströder @ 2021-01-14 17:40 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: galene

On 1/14/21 6:33 PM, Juliusz Chroboczek wrote:
>> But compared to privacy issues I'm much more frightened of someone
>> abusing my unattended Galène installation for something really bad
> 
> [...]
> 
>> So IMO an autokick option would not only be featuritis.
> 
> What happens if the operator gets disconnected, for example because he
> closed the wrong navigator tab or because he moved from WiFi to 4G which
> broke the websocket?

Yeah, our e-mails crossed.

Would it be possible to implement an ops inactivity timeout before all
attendees are kicked out? With this the ops would have a fair chance to
re-connect in time.

> What about adding a command "/kickall"

Would be useful. But what happens in case ops cannot reconnect due to
persistent issues?

Ciao, Michael.

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread

* [Galene] Re: autolock always locks
  2021-01-14 17:40               ` Michael Ströder
@ 2021-01-17 20:30                 ` Juliusz Chroboczek
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 13+ messages in thread
From: Juliusz Chroboczek @ 2021-01-17 20:30 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Michael Ströder; +Cc: galene

> Would it be possible to implement an ops inactivity timeout before all
> attendees are kicked out? With this the ops would have a fair chance to
> re-connect in time.

I've implemented an autokick option with no timeout.  Please test, and let
me know how well it works in practice.

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread

end of thread, other threads:[~2021-01-17 20:30 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 13+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2021-01-14  9:19 [Galene] autolock always locks Michael Ströder
2021-01-14 12:36 ` [Galene] " Juliusz Chroboczek
2021-01-14 12:38   ` Gabriel Kerneis
2021-01-14 12:55     ` Juliusz Chroboczek
2021-01-14 12:58       ` Michael Ströder
2021-01-14 15:26         ` Juliusz Chroboczek
2021-01-14 15:41           ` Michael Ströder
2021-01-14 17:17             ` Toke Høiland-Jørgensen
2021-01-14 17:29               ` Michael Ströder
2021-01-14 17:33             ` Juliusz Chroboczek
2021-01-14 17:40               ` Michael Ströder
2021-01-17 20:30                 ` Juliusz Chroboczek
2021-01-14 12:56     ` Michael Ströder

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